Did you ever walk into a gym as a teenager and think, “This is going to change my life”? Probably not, right? But for Ava, stepping into Utopia as a teenager set off a chain reaction that shaped her into the leader she is today. From nervous first classes to running summer programs and mentoring the next wave of students, her journey is all about growth, confidence, and stepping up when it matters most.
In this episode of Inside the Wave, we break down Ava’s evolution—from being one of the only girls in class to becoming a driving force in the Utopia community. Whether you’re an athlete, coach, or someone looking to build confidence, her story will hit home.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
Stepping onto the mats for the first time can be intimidating—especially as a young female in a male-dominated sport. In this episode, Ava shares how jiu-jitsu shaped her confidence, resilience, and leadership, offering valuable lessons for anyone on their own growth journey. Here’s what you’ll take away:
- The challenges of being a young female starting in martial arts
- How jiu-jitsu builds confidence and mental resilience
- The transition from student to mentor and leader at Utopia
- The importance of finding a supportive training environment
- Why self-defense training is essential for young women
Standout Quotes from Ava
- “I started kickboxing because a friend invited me, but jiu-jitsu? That was an accident. Perry put me in a class, and I didn’t know I was signed up.”
- “Being the only girl in class at first was intimidating, but I stuck with it—and now I get to help others do the same.”
- “Jiu-jitsu isn’t just about learning to fight; it’s about getting comfortable in uncomfortable situations.”
- “Having a supportive gym was the biggest reason I kept going. Without it, I don’t think I would’ve stayed.”
- “I never expected to be a leader at Utopia, but when you’re surrounded by people who believe in you, it changes everything.”
Stream Episode 11 Now
🎧 Available on:
About Utopia
Utopia is a community dedicated to personal growth through martial arts. As a space where individuals of all ages come together to challenge themselves and support one another, Utopia embodies the values of mentorship, discipline, and resilience. The Inside the Wave podcast amplifies these values, sharing stories and lessons that inspire listeners to grow on and off the mats.
Why This Episode Matters
If you’ve ever doubted yourself on the mats or felt like you didn’t belong in a space, Ava’s story will resonate.Her journey is proof that jiu-jitsu isn’t just about learning techniques—it’s about pushing past fears, proving people (and yourself) wrong, and discovering what you’re truly capable of. Whether you’re just starting out or looking for motivation to keep going, this episode delivers valuable insights on growth and perseverance.
Join the Conversation
Like what you heard? Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share the episode with your network. Stay connected with Utopia and Inside the Wave for more inspiring stories from thought leaders in the martial arts community.
Transcript
Perry:
All right. Well, welcome to the next episode of Inside the Wave. I think it’s episode 11. I kind of lose track after time. But today I have the incredible Ava as a guest on the podcast. Ava is many things to the Utopia community, a student, part of our, I hate using the word like employee, but part of our team team, which is weird because like we are like utopian general as a team. Like, you’re part of the team that gets paid. Yes, yes. You help manage our summer camp. You’re a jiu-jitsu athlete. But yeah, I think it’s exciting to have you on the podcast. Because there’s not a lot of people that have started with us in their teens and now our employees leading programs and on that path. So welcome.
Ava: Yeah, thank you. Excited to be here.
Perry: So let’s talk about when you started with Utopia. You were like 15, 16. Like 15, 16, yeah. And you wanted to be the next ultimate fighter.
Ava: Something like that. I actually was brought in by a friend of mine at the time from high school. Cool. Who was that?
Perry: I don’t even remember.
Ava: Eli. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. He had made a comment one day that he did like kickboxing with you guys. I was like, oh, that could be fun. My dad has a kickboxing bag in the basement.
Perry: Cool.
Ava: And I used to mess around on that. I was like, I might as well learn what I’m doing. And then came for a class and my mother told me I wouldn’t stick with it. And I’m here six, seven years later.
Perry: Did you stick with it because your mom challenged you and you wouldn’t stick with it?
Ava: Originally, yes. I think that was a big part.
Perry: And you’re one of those people that just needs to prove everyone wrong.
Ava: Yes. Yeah. And it was fun. It was a good energy outlet.
Perry: Cool. So like that was your pure motivation. You had a friend that was doing kickboxing and you’re like, yeah, I’ll join you.
Ava: Yeah. Um, originally once I got more into it, it was really good for self-defense. I started doing like the live sparring classes instead of just the cardio kickboxing. And then that kind of morphed into my main motivator with it was self-defense and learning how to protect myself. Cause I was going to be going to college in a year or two at that point. So,
Perry: What was, do you have any like big challenges when you got started? Because you’re a female teenager. Yeah. Joining a class with a bunch of adults, but also like a bunch of males as well.
Ava: Yeah, I was for the longest time one of, if not the only female in that class. And then especially in the life sparring class, I was like the only female. And it was really intimidating at first. It like took me a really long time to get over that of like, oh, not only am I not good at this, but I’m so much worse at it because of all these giant men that just have like the physical advantage on me. But I think the community at utopia was really super supportive even back at that time when I wasn’t really Fully involved and they were really encouraging to keep me going. So even though I had that That like black of I’m really bad at this and oh, no, I don’t know if I should be doing this everybody whenever I brought that up was super encouraging for me to keep going and
Perry: That’s awesome. And eventually you found jiu-jitsu, which is your primary thing. What, what got you suckered into a jiu-jitsu class?
Ava: You actually, it was COVID and we had to sign up for classes. We had to register for classes and somehow in the system, one of my classes got registered for a jiu-jitsu class and I did not do it and you would not let me change it. And you said, you got to show up. And I think you were just joking at the time, but I didn’t know. Yeah. So I came, I had fun. Um, I didn’t join the co-ed right away though. After that class, I went to the women’s only classes first and I did that for a while. And then Rebecca roped me into the adult co-ed classes. Yep. And she said, she’s like, just come give it a try. You can just train with me.
Perry: And you’re like on the brink of, you know, we have teen classes, we have women only classes, we have adult coed classes, like regular jiu-jitsu classes. And you were like, too old to be in the teens class. Yes, because our cutoff there is like 1617. Yeah, like size and skill and stuff. One. So you’re like almost pushed into the adult class. And our women’s program is much different of a program than a regular adult one.
Ava: Yes. Yeah. It was every Saturday at that time. And it was just whatever they wanted to teach, essentially. And I think it was very by two blue belts at the time, two women blue belts. And yeah, and then I came into the adult class because I was like 17 at that time. So I’d already been training for about two years with the kickboxing program. Yeah.
Perry: So like you knew the community, you knew the coaches, you knew a lot of the teammates, not all the kickboxers did jiu-jitsu, but a lot of them did.
Ava: Yes. Yeah.
Perry: And we eventually got rid of the kickboxing program because we just wanted to focus on our core competency of jiu-jitsu.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: Um, What was the hardest transition going into Jiu Jitsu?
Ava: I think that mental block of being that close to people, like kickboxing, you can keep the distance and they’re not on top of you. And then in jiu-jitsu, it’s like, okay, now I’m with all these adults, these adult grown men, and they’re on top of me and they’re squishing me and I can’t breathe.
Perry: How did you, how did you manage that? How’d you deal with that? I know a lot of people, like when they first come into jiu-jitsu, there’s a lot of things that are overwhelming. Like it’s not just. that right it’s also the fact that like it’s a new activity in a new place with a new community with new instructors so at least you had a program that helped get rid of all of those other things yes but that’s still one of the most challenging ones right you can go into new places and meet new people anywhere like going to coffee shop and introduce people you can’t go into somewhere and be like hey completely invade my personal space yes and Like just stay there.
Ava: Yeah, I think it was super, super fortunate that I was already a part of the community. And that at that time we had a couple other women in classes like Hannah and Sam were going still. And so we had a couple women that were already kind of established and to me knew what they were doing. Granted, at the time they were both white belts, like white belts. But to me that seemed like, oh, they know everything in the world. And then Tanner and Dylan, who was training with me in the kickboxing program also were starting around that time. So I had familiar faces who are also like new in the program, also new in the program.
Perry: And it’s great people to start with considering you said like you had grown men on top of you squishing you. Yes. For people that don’t do jiu-jitsu, there’s different types of jiu-jitsu games. Like you have the people that try to smush you and you have the people that move a lot. The two people that she started with are not the smushers.
Ava: No, they definitely are not. And actually to this day, Tanner is still one of my favorite training partners.
Perry: He just flows. He was also on the podcast.
Ava: He was on the podcast. Yeah. A couple of episodes ago.
Perry: Nice. Yeah. So having good training partners helped you get into that. Now, do you have a preference nowadays to, you know, if you had advice for women looking to get started, and I hear different things from different people, you know, should they try a women’s class first? Should they go into a regular class first? It’s surprising to me, actually, the amount of women that I talked to that are like, No, I don’t want to all women’s class.
Ava: Yes. Yeah. I think if I was doing it all over again, I would go with the co-ed class again. First, I think it gives a more realistic approach and a lot of the like women’s only classes are centered around self-defense, which is great, but then it gives you that idea of, Oh, I did a self-defense class. I’m good. I don’t need anything else, which is so not the case. And you know, even after doing jiu-jitsu for, Four years now almost even now.
Perry: Like i’m like, I still need to keep going Like I still need to learn more to be able to defend myself Yeah, and so it’s like maybe the women’s class is like if you like being around other women and you’re Intimidated by men to start maybe the women’s class is a good spot to start.
Ava: Yes. Yeah, I It definitely plays its role, you know when I came back from college after I had run into some issues up there I only wanted to do the women’s classes. Okay, so like I can see how women that have gone through stuff in their past, that would be a really great entryway in.
Perry: Comfort zone.
Ava: Yeah. Comfort zone. Good to ease them into it. Kind of like that doorway into the world of jiu-jitsu. However, if you’re like, already into sports, already comfortable around male dominated things or even just comfortable in trying new things, I would recommend going to a co-ed class and even just bringing a friend with you. Like if that’s what’s stopping you and you don’t want to go alone, bring a friend and train with that friend while you’re there.
Perry: And I feel like if you’re going to a good school, the coach is going to put you with someone who can help you that day.
Ava: For sure.
Perry: Who’s trusted and hopefully you can also trust them because the coach trusts them to put you with them and you know we always practice that like perfect partner especially on someone’s first day. Yes. I think that’s super important. I think there’s a huge difference in women’s programs versus regular programs because there’s so many different reasons why people do jiu-jitsu and classes are different. So you know if you’re coming to Utopia for a women’s class What does that class look like differently than a regular co-ed class?
Ava: Yeah, so our women’s classes are jiu-jitsu for self-defense. So we do like a logical warmup. So things that would incorporate normal movements as opposed to jiu-jitsu movements. And then we go into a takedown of some sorts from the The like placement of somebody’s gonna try to attack you and then we lead that into something on the ground so it connects but it’s very Self-defense based jiu-jitsu.
Perry: Yeah, so still jiu-jitsu this person’s trying to hurt me or dominate me not score more points Yes, exactly.
Ava: Whereas our co-ed classes are very okay. I Here’s jiu-jitsu. This is what you do in a match, you know, and I feel like we focus on a lot of them in the co-ed classes of a lot of, okay, what technique can I do from here to stay on the ground or keep them pinned down or get to a better position? Whereas in the women’s class, it’s okay. How do I get out of here? How do I avoid getting punched in the face? How do I get up and run? Kind of thing. So it’s very, I feel like the co-ed classes are very cohesive movements to keep the match going. Whereas the women’s classes are very get out kind of thing.
Perry: Like moves to get out, get safe. Yes.
Ava: Yeah. It’s not to fight back. Yeah.
Perry: Awesome. Um, I like advice to everyone looking to try out jiu-jitsu. Like every gym is different. Every women’s programs can be different. Every coed programs can be different. You know, a gym might have a more in general self defense outtake on jiu-jitsu. They might have a more sport one, they might have a mixed martial arts one, just every gym is so different. Like just Find ones that work for you.
Ava: Yeah, you got to find your home. I’ve lucked out I’ve gotten really lucky with one utopia was my first gym that I’ve ever gone to for martial arts and It was great and I’ve been here. Yes best one in the area for sure But then when I moved up to Stevens Point for college I also got lucky and had a really good gym up there as well. And so I feel like I That’s not the case for a lot of people like I’ve tried other gyms in the Milwaukee area They’re all good, but they’re all very different for sure. And so you definitely need to know what you’re looking for, especially as a female I feel like we have very different criteria than just Somebody walking and off the street as like a male wanting to learn how to become the next UFC fighter.
Perry: Yeah, I
Ava: Right? And so some of the things that I looked for specifically when I was up in Stevens Point after already knowing what Utopia’s culture was, was, okay, is there a female presence? How do the coaches respond to a woman coming in? Like, are they giving the same amount of attention to them? Are they just kind of blowing them off? You know, making sure that that there’s like an actual introduction period and not just a, Oh yeah, just get on the mat. We’ll talk about payment stuff later. Right. Cause you hear horror stories about women that are like, Oh, I went to this gym and they told me there are like alternative ways I could pay. And it was like, absolutely not.
Perry: Like, yeah, it’s disgusting.
Ava: Yes. And so you have to be very, very picky. And I feel like if you’re looking for a gym, no, or do some research on what makes a good jiu-jitsu gym.
Perry: And like, try out other places, because you might find one that you like, and the next one might be even better and a better fit. Like, you don’t have to settle.
Ava: For sure.
Perry: And I tell that to everyone. Like, if I have a friend that’s like, hey, you know, I’m looking for a gym out in Madison. Like, hey, here are my three I would start with. But like, in reality, you should try out all of them. If you can make it to them, like, if your schedule allows you to drive that distance to make it on a regular basis, like, try them all out. Like, don’t just do the first one. Be like, yeah, this one’s for me.
Ava: For sure. Yeah. Don’t be afraid to commute either. Like there’s always my mindset with. My health, whether it be through jiu-jitsu or weightlifting or whatever it may be is don’t settle for like the bare minimum. Like there’s no. Price point that you can put on a good health. And so if a gym is going to take care of you and it’s going to be what you need and it’s going to push you and you’re going to stick with it and it’s going to be good for you overall. And it’s 30 minutes away and you can make that drive, make that drive rather than compromising and settling for a gym that may be five minutes away, but isn’t super great for you.
Perry: Now, I’m sure you believe this, but are you a believer in the fact that, like, most females should likely learn jiu-jitsu or something before going into their, like, adult years?
Ava: Yes.
null: 100%.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: And I know, like, we say that, but how… How can we like truly encourage the audience to like, Hey, put your teenage girls into something and not just like a one day, like you said, like a one day class. Like the amount, I mean, you’re our, and I didn’t say this yet, but like, you’re now our sales and marketing director. You run our summer camp. You get all the messages. that like it’s senior year, it’s mom two months before college starts. Hey, I want my daughter to be able to defend herself before she goes off to school at Madison. Here, you have two months to do it. She could attend four classes.
Ava: Yeah. Yeah, it’s not enough. Nowhere near enough, I mean.
Perry: What would you say, you know, you started when you were 15 and 16, and now you’re probably fairly confident in your ability to defend yourself against Maybe not everyone, but a good handful of people. For sure. Like, how long did it take? What did your training look like until you were actually built that confidence? Like, I feel like I could actually stand up for myself.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: It’s probably something you’re still working on.
Ava: It definitely is. That’s definitely something that I’ve thought a lot about, especially with the younger girls that have been coming into our gym recently.
Perry: It’s been like five or six years of training, right?
Ava: Yeah. Yeah, five or six years for sure. I started off with kickboxing, went into the whole MMA route, Muay Thai. And then did jiu-jitsu. And along my jiu-jitsu journey, I was assaulted a couple times. And, you know, I always beat myself up over the fact that I didn’t, I wasn’t able to stop it at that time. Right. I was like, I want to say, Two and a half years into my kickboxing journey, a year into jiu-jitsu, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is pointless if I’ve been doing this for so long. But looking back, what I did know came in handy, and it could have gone a lot worse if I didn’t use what I knew. And so that’s always been something now that I’ve reflected on, is that you can never learn enough self-defense. You can never start early enough of learning how to protect yourself or your family or other people, right? Like start as early as possible.
Perry: What would you say like the bare minimum is like, Hey, I know my kid’s going to be going off to college when they’re 19. You know, assume a two day a week training schedule, like freshman year of high school, freshman year of high school, four years, four years, two days a week, they’ll be somewhat confident to be able to mitigate.
Ava: I think so. I think I’m finally at that point, at least in my jiu-jitsu journey, where I feel like I could be comfortable if somebody were to try to do something or if a fight were to break out, that I’d be able to at least defend myself. Maybe not somebody else, but at least myself. You know, and like I said, when I was about three years into like martial arts in general, I could kind of help myself, but it wasn’t anywhere near as much as I thought at that time that I would have been able to do. Like there’s that false sense of confidence of, Oh, I trained martial arts. Oh, I’m a white belt. A white belt is still baby. Like, you know, nothing for sure. You know, nothing.
Perry: So, I mean, even as a, God, no matter what level you are, maybe if you’re like the Gordon Ryan, the world’s best people, like, Man, I still roll against people. I’m like, fuck, I know nothing.
Ava: For sure. For sure. Like every, it’s never, never too soon.
Perry: I say it all the time. Like I’ll have a five minute roll with a world champion and I’ve done zero jiu-jitsu to that other person in five minutes and they’ve tapped me out as many times as they want.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: And I’ve been doing jiu-jitsu for whatever, like six, 17 years or something now.
Ava: Yeah. That’s crazy.
Perry: So you started doing jiu jitsu. So you started kickboxing to do it with a friend. Yeah, you got roped into doing jiu jitsu. Yeah, you kept doing jiu jitsu for some self defense. Like why do you do jiu jitsu now? So you’ve like your journeys have a lot of like different why’s along the road, but what’s your hey, I’m a X amount of stripe blue belt and like, why do you keep doing it today?
Ava: Yeah, I think a lot of it now is it’s just been embedded into my identity of who I am as a young adult now.
Perry: I’m a jiu-jitsu-er.
Ava: Yeah, like it came into my life when I was younger, like a teen, very lost, didn’t know who I was, didn’t know where life was gonna take me, had no clue what I wanted to do.
Perry: I mean, what teenager does know all of that?
Ava: That’s true, that is true. Yes, yes, a typical teenager, typical teenage mindset. And it was something that was very consistent in my life. And it just kind of stuck with it. And I really enjoy it. And it’s really good for your health. It’s done wonders for my mental health and just my peace of mind. You know, I grew up with a dad who was very disabled and he has multiple sclerosis. So he’s been in a wheelchair like my whole life. And there’s always that thought of if somebody were to break into our house, who would defend it? Right.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: And like, that’s kind of like weird to say, but we’ve talked about it as a family. Like that’s always kind of there where it’s like, we never had the typical, defender father figure. And so I feel like somewhere subconsciously, that’s what motivates me currently is I want to be able to, if something were to happen in the future, be able to protect my kids or my household. Right. And obviously Cody does jiu-jitsu, so he would be able to help too. But you know, I don’t want my future children to feel like they only can go to dad to defend them. Like that’s probably one of my biggest motivators other than just my health and being able to do basic life things for the rest of my life.
Perry: I love it.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: Um, what do you look forward to the most in Jiu Jitsu in the futures?
Ava: The challenge. I really like the challenge. I never thought that would be something that I would enjoy about jiu-jitsu.
Perry: What is the challenge? Because a lot of our listeners like don’t understand. They’re all like, what do you mean like a tournament? Like you have a competition coming up? Like, There’s a daily challenge.
Ava: There’s a daily challenge. There’s the, there’s a couple of challenges. There’s the mental challenge of getting on the mat and putting yourself in a compromising position or uncomfortable positions. And then there’s the physical challenge of just trying to keep up, right? Those 10 minute rolls for an hour on Friday nights. killer, but so good. The dopamine release is just, it’s worth it every time. And also just knowing that every time I get on the mat, I’m getting 1% better. Even if it was a bad day on the mat, bad day on the mat, still better than a good day off the mat. Right? Like that’s, that’s pretty much where I am with it, where it’s like, if I’m on the mat, I’m getting a little bit better and I’m improving myself a little bit more and that’s worth it.
Perry: And I would say you’re, you’re an outlier in the amount of discipline that you have. Like you will, get on the mat when you don’t feel like it. You are okay getting on the mat and just doing like the technique portion of the class, skipping, rolling, if you know your body can’t handle it that day. But you’re definitely an outlier when it comes to self-discipline and consistency, which is really cool.
Ava: Which I feel like has a lot to do with utopia and starting there young I mean and it’s that’s taking you so far.
Perry: So now you’ve you know, you’ve grown from a student You know, when did you start working for utopia? What did that look like? Where’d you begin and where are you at now?
Ava: Because there’s been a lot of growth there has been yeah, I started I’d like just turned 18. I turned, yeah, my birthday’s in May.
Perry: Working at Target.
Ava: So I was working at Target and it was either you or Fuji. Somebody pulled me off to the side on the mat and was like, hey, we’re starting the summer camp thing. We think you’d be great to like do the director role and I was like, yeah, that sounds fun I like kids and so you guys had me do your very first ever parents night out. I helped out with it It was a nerf night. And that was like my interview my like unofficial interview and I
Perry: Nerf nights are pure chaos.
Ava: So much chaos. And there was like 70 something kids. Yeah. It was, it was so much fun. And I was like, yeah, I could do this. And then so Fuji and I sat down and we talked and he was like, okay, cool. So you’ll just leave target for the summer and you’ll come work for us. And so I did the summer camp and I actually, I was still working at target to the first two summers I worked for you guys. I did like split. And then, yeah, I ran summer camp. And then I went away to Students Point in the fall again.
Perry: So summer camp director is no joke of a role.
Ava: No, it is a lot more than I thought it was. I thought, okay, I’ll watch some kids. I’ll be like a baby. I’ve babysat before.
Perry: So what does a summer camp director do?
Ava: Well, so I am not only in charge of all of the children, which now we’ve grown, I think our first year we had like 25 kids and now we have over 100, which is insane for four years now. And so in charge of the kids, in charge of the curriculum and what they learn, throughout the summer and the activities that they do.
Perry: It must be clear, you’re not watching 100 kids.
Ava: No, no, no. We have coaches. We have coaches I’m in charge of.
Perry: We have mandated state ratios. The kids are with coaches, but Ava oversees the entire program, right?
Ava: The entire program.
Perry: Make sure that the coaches are doing what they need to do. The kids are being happy.
Ava: Training coaches. If the kid needs extra help. Yep. going in helping kids if needed, handling all the logistics, anything that parents may need, all of the field trip setups, all the payments, all that, everything. I mean, if you think of it, you name it, I probably do it.
Perry: What are some of the biggest things you’ve learned that will serve you later in life as a summer camp director?
Ava: How to calm people down.
Perry: Ooh, like campers or parents or?
Ava: All of the above. Staff members. I’ve learned a lot in my, this will be my fifth summer.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: You know, I’ve learned a lot about how do you get kids out of that freaking out mindset and focused on something else so that then we can go back to it and they’re in a better mindset and not all freaked out. Yeah. I’ve learned how to break not great news to parents and how to handle very upset parents.
Perry: Yeah. Um, hey, sorry miss billy’s mom billy punched someone in the face.
Ava: Yeah, unfortunately, he can no longer come back, right? like hard conversations hard conversations And it’s made my communication a lot better overall not only with other people but in general public speaking and just being more confident and this is something that I need to have a conversation about and we’re gonna have a conversation about it in an adult way and knowing that I can not control the way the conversation goes, but very much lead it and direct it if needed.
Perry: Talk about a skill that not a lot of people have the opportunity to develop.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: Having hard conversations.
Ava: Yeah. Especially at 21, man, I, looking back, I was like, even just in the last year of like our team trainings and the book clubs that we do, right? Like, My communication has just grown so much.
Perry: I mean, plus you’re doing, you know, you’re the one doing a lot of the signup for summer camp. So talking to parents about what they’re looking for, conveying to them about, Hey, here’s how we can help you out.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: You know, you get a lot of parents that ask you like theoretical questions around like, what if this happens at camp? Like, how would you handle that with Mike? Like a parent’s almost testing you on scenarios and stuff like that.
Ava: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, they’re leaving their child with us for eight, nine hours a day, if not more. So definitely making sure parents are comfortable.
Perry: Cool. So you did summer camp and then you stuck around.
Ava: Then I stuck around. I did.
Perry: Like, hey, we just want you for the summer. And then we’re like, you can’t go.
Ava: Yes. Yeah, I can’t go. I transferred home from Stevens Point to Mount Mary to finish out my undergrad and do my master’s. And so I was in the area. I did not want to work at Target anymore. I was there for three or four years. And you said, hey, we have this position open. see if you’d like it. I think you’d be a good fit. And then that morphed into picking up more and more responsibility and then essentially becoming the sales marketing director and then all of summer camp stuff again and then taking over even more for summer camp and then helping coach occasionally and
Perry: Yeah. It was like originally we’re like, Hey, we need your help running summer camp and we’ll have a, you know, uh, one of our other managers there to help you out. Like you’re really in charge of the day to day. Like you have a lot of support as well. And you know, you’ve been given less and less support over the years. You keep stacking up in, in what you do. Um, but so you’ve developed a lot of skills. What would you think? Like, What is your superpower? You might have many of them. You have a lot of skills. I can tell you all your qualities that make you a great team member, but what do you think a lot of business podcasters have a unique ability? What’s the unique thing that you bring to the table that you are super good at?
Ava: Man, that is a hard question. I think, I don’t know if it’s really a unique ability, but being flexible.
Perry: Tell me more.
Ava: I think over the years of summer camp, I have learned not to take things personally.
Perry: Oh, that’s yeah, that’s a big one at summer camp.
Ava: That is a very big one at summer camp. Not especially when you’re around kids. They are brutally honest.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: So not taking things personally, and being able to just go with the flow, right? One of our core values is flow.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: And I think that has been the place that I’ve grown the most in and that I’ve really harnessed and used the most to my ability and everything that I do, not only at utopia, but in school and in real life and in my relationships is just being flexible and being able to know, okay, this didn’t go the way I wanted, but we’re going to make it work anyways. So I think that’s really helped me succeed.
Perry: What’s your, What’s your favorite part about your job? You know, whether it be the summer campsite or the sales and marketing side, or just Utopia in general, like what’s your favorite part about what you do?
Ava: Helping people. I think we make a very big impact in the community. And even if it’s just listening to a kid for the day or encouraging them, you know, to make a new friend or helping a kid that’s having a hard day on the mats, I think That might be my favorite thing is just seeing the impact that we have on kids and adults alike and knowing that what I’m doing has a purpose.
Perry: Have you had that same impact on yourself from our other coaches?
Ava: For sure, definitely. I’ve had a lot of support from coaches. I’ve had a lot of coaches, I mean yourself, Fuji, Aaron Rint specifically, go above and beyond. Dan Rathmanner even, you know, just go above and beyond with helping me.
Perry: We’ll cut out that Dan Rathmanner.
Ava: Yeah, don’t need to let him know. But yeah, just going above and beyond and taking an interest in what’s going on in my life beyond jiu-jitsu and taking that time to if they notice, hey, you seem off what’s going on. Yeah, you know, having that conversation and making sure that I’m okay or making sure that I know I’m doing well if I’m in my head or whatever it may be. And, you know, I joke about it a lot, but I do feel like truly a lot of you guys have become like older brother, father figure type things for me and very much role models for sure.
Perry: That’s the goal.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: That’s the goal. So today you are in your master’s program. Like you’ve always been accelerated in school.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: Like you graduated high school early and you did a college degree in like two years.
Ava: Yeah, yeah. So I graduated Well, so I finished my normal high school classes early and then I did like AP classes to finish out my four years. So I graduated with a 4.5 GPA from high school. So that’s a, it’s above a 4.0. So we had waited classes because it’s been a while since I’ve been in high school. It is above. Okay. Yeah, so typically it caps out at a 4.0, but because I was taking college level classes, yeah, with the AP ones, they were weighted. So I graduated with that, all honors, that whole thing. And then I finished my undergrads and my bachelors in psychology pre-dietetics within three years.
Perry: And then I started- I took five years for mine, so.
Ava: There you go.
Perry: Damn.
Ava: Everybody goes at their own speed.
Perry: I mean, it didn’t help that I started Utopia when I was at college.
Ava: I was going to say, yeah, you already were starting your business.
Perry: Jiu-Jitsu was a little bit more of a priority than my classes.
Ava: Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I’ve definitely struggled with that balance for sure, but yeah, three years.
Perry: So three years of undergrad and now you’re in your second year.
Ava: First year of my master’s. First year of my master’s. I graduate next year with that, and then I’ll take the RD exam, hopefully become a registered dietitian right away, and then go out into the world of dietetics.
Perry: Why dietetics?
Ava: I feel like a lot of it was based on my dad. So with his multiple sclerosis, He tried a lot of different things to help slow down the progression of it and nothing really worked. None of the meds worked. None of the like exercises really worked or like the PT things that they told him to do until he He basically went into the world of diets and he did a whole bunch of yo-yo dieting when I was growing up Him and my mom did and then essentially when he realized none of those were working he did a deep dive into nutrition and what it actually means to be healthy and what’s actually in our food and I learned a lot through him and actually going, he cut out most gluten, almost all artificial sugars, pretty much only eight things that grew from the ground and that we could make at home. And so very limited packaging and it slowed down his MS like crazy. Like he made really good progress. He was able to stand on his own. He was getting to the point where he could walk a little bit without his cane. And then that was like really big for him. And then he unfortunately got pneumonia, um, on the plane coming home from a, like he went to go get a procedure done and then fell, broke his leg, went down a whole thing. And that then got pneumonia and COVID at the same time that were really wiped him out. But. for the time that he was doing that and able to work on his nutrition, it made a difference. So when I was going into school to decide what I wanted to do, I really had no clue. And I was like, well, I really like food. And I had an eating disorder for like six, seven years. And I was like, okay, maybe I’ll take a couple of classes for this. I can always change my major. And it just kind of stuck.
Perry: Cool. What kind of, you know, what kind of clients do you want to work with in the dietetics space? We just talked about this the other day, right?
Ava: Yeah, we did.
Perry: You can work with, you know, patients like your dad, right? You could also work with the spectrum to athletes. I’m sure there’s like baby dietetics. Like, yeah, there’s this huge spectrum of what you could go into, like, what is your Money doesn’t matter. Perfect. Pretend every dietetic position pays the same amount of money. What’s your perfect dietetic world?
Ava: Perfect dietetic world.
Perry: Like on a daily basis, I want to work with these types of people.
Ava: Athletes, for sure. Specifically, female teen athletes. And I think it’s because I struggled so much as a female teen athlete with my body image and having an eating disorder and not knowing Going from that to then going to, okay, now I need to get strong. I need to learn how to defend myself. I no longer want to be the skinniest version of myself. I want to be the strongest.
Perry: It’s hard to be skinny and weak and still be able to defend yourself.
Ava: Exactly. I, for the first couple of months.
Perry: There’s a reason why UFC fighters are just like yoked.
Ava: Yes. I, for the first couple of months couldn’t even frame in jiu-jitsu. I could not keep my frames up. I was, I think, I want to say I was like 110 pounds when I started jiu-jitsu. I’m 155 right now. And that was like crazy for me to even think about, Oh my gosh, I can’t even keep up my frames.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: So,
Perry: Could you even hold your hands up in kickboxing to defend your face? Your hands just keep falling down?
Ava: They got really tired really quickly. And actually my first couple months, I didn’t even want to hit anybody else.
Perry: Yeah. Cause you just didn’t have the power output to like, I’m going to hit you, but I know it’s not going to hurt you.
Ava: Exactly. I always, I liked kicks more always. My kicks were always strong.
Perry: Yeah. So how do you balance it all? What’s your system? We’ve had a lot of people on this podcast that are like, entrepreneurs balancing it with business or families and balancing it with like their kids and stuff. Like you have your own little world of, I work, I need to train. I do jiu-jitsu. I like lifting. I’m in a master’s program. I’m in all these internships for my master’s program that I don’t get a pick. Like you have a lot of different irons in the fire pulling you in a bunch of different directions.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: How do you Do you get it all in? How do you prioritize it? How are you okay with shifting priorities?
Ava: Yeah, I struggled with that for a very long time. I put a lot of my worth in how much I was working out versus other things. And I think when I started grounding myself in my faith more, I realized, okay, I need to stop attaching my worth to the things that I’m doing. And that’ll make it a lot easier to rest and to say, okay, this isn’t working for me today. Or, okay, I’m in a season of my life where this can’t be a priority. And so when school started, my undergrad, I flew by. I did not have to study. I didn’t have to like really do a whole lot extra outside of classes. I could work out every day, all day long if I wanted. But I couldn’t do that in my masters anymore. So knowing when to let up and when to know this isn’t good for my mental health anymore was a big thing for me to learn. And a lot of that came with sitting down and talking with like you or with my dad or other people that were good at seeing through my bullshit essentially and knowing, okay, these are your actual priorities. You just want other people to be proud of you or to give you permission to relax.
Perry: Do you think it helps being in school and school operating in like a semester basis to help you be like, okay, this sucks. The schedule sucks right now. I’m not getting X, Y, Z in that I would like to, but I at least know by the end of the semester it’s could be totally different.
Ava: Yes, yeah, that was a really big carrier this semester, knowing that, okay, even though I have to put all this time into school, that I know next semester, I’ll have more time for jiu-jitsu. Or I know come summer, I’ll have more time for jiu-jitsu and these things that I want, and that for now, I just need to sit and focus.
Perry: Nice. I have a health coach and he uses the term seasons a lot. Yeah, like season can be like, two weeks, it can be six months. That’s helped me a lot. Because you know, in the last six months, I’ve been in a season of my life where like, I can’t make it to Friday jiu jitsu classes, which is typically one of my staple jiu jitsu classes. I’m like, this sucks. But I’m like, But I know in a couple months, I’ll be able to make Fridays again. And it’s fine. Like, like you said, you know, jiu-jitsu is always there. It’s always there.
Ava: The mat is always there.
Perry: There’s always classes going on, whether you’re there or not, there’ll still be classes in the future. I’m going to be able to ideally do jiu-jitsu until I’m 100 years old.
Ava: Exactly. And you can only do that if you take it easy and go when you need to.
Perry: Yeah, nice. What suggestion would you give to other people in college that are where you are at now, right? Like you’re kind of, you’re almost wrapping up a degree. You’re kind of in this like almost future transition period of your life. You have a lot of stuff going on. What advice would you give to other people on this stage?
Ava: Take it one day at a time. Don’t, I’m, I’m a very big planner. I’m a very big, I need to have everything go a specific way. Very type a personality.
Perry: Have you always been that way?
Ava: Yes. Always.
Perry: Always. Growing up in your house, you had to help a lot in your house and like be that person.
Ava: Yeah. Yeah. I was, when my mother was at work, I was basically the primary caretaker for my dad. And then when she was home, even then, like I was helping with things and those, we got older, you know, I took on more responsibility. And I feel like that stability of knowing, okay, I’m going to have to help feed my father or I’m going to have to help get his socks on or like knowing what was coming up next was what kept me okay with it.
Perry: Do you like responsibility or would you like have, do you think you could handle two weeks with zero responsibility?
Ava: No. I go insane. I even just went to break with just working. I have like, Not so much free time, but I have free time, and Cody’s always telling me, he’s like, just sit down, just take a nap, just do something. I’m like, no, I need to be busy. I’ve always been busy my whole entire life. And for better or for worse, that’s just how I operate. I operate very well under pressure and when there’s a lot going on.
Perry: And so- And you just like doing stuff.
Ava: Yes, yeah, I like being busy.
Perry: Like an active human being.
Ava: Yes, yeah, I like being busy, I like doing things, I like, Specifically working out, things like that, right? Because my dad couldn’t, so we were always taught, don’t take your health and your physical abilities for granted. And so I think no matter what stage of my life I’m in, that’ll always be a priority.
Perry: Do you even take like a day where you have nothing? Like I need one day a week where it’s like no obligations, nothing. And if I decide that day, I want to sit on my couch all day, I can.
Ava: I’ve gotten a lot better about doing that. A year ago, me would freak out.
Perry: Like I can’t, there’s no way I can do that every day. Like when COVID happened, I couldn’t do jiu-jitsu. I was like going bonkers. Um, when I’ve had injuries in the past and I can’t like do jiu-jitsu, I go bonkers. But like, I still need that data. And maybe it’s just cause I am actually an introvert and like I need to recharge on my own. where an extrovert gets energy from being around people all the time. Like I think I need that day to just like turn it back on for the careers that I’m in.
Ava: Yeah. I operated for so long without those days and then realized after I was in therapy for a while that I was just operating in a stage of total burnout. And so I actually just had one of those days, New Year’s Day. Cody and I sat on the couch literally all day and didn’t do anything. It was fabulous. A year ago, I would have, if I did that, I would have been like, I’m so lazy. I need to get up and do something like, you know, just having all those negative thoughts. But now that I’ve had a little bit of a better reign on those, I’ve realized it’s okay to take breaks. It’s okay to just relax. Like you need those, you need those to reset. And if you don’t, then your body is going to take a break for you and it’s going to be at a time that’s very inconvenient. So might as well take them when it’s convenient to you.
Perry: Nice. Before we jump into rapid fire questions, do you have anything else you want to share?
Ava: Um, I think the only other thing that I really have is just don’t get in your own way.
Perry: What do you mean?
Ava: Physically and mentally, you know, in jiu-jitsu, don’t get in your own way. It’s so easy. That’s like been my biggest lesson that I’ve been learning to like, be like, why isn’t this move working? Well, you’re pushing and pulling at the same time. You’re literally stopping your own body. Oh, Right. Like always constantly. I fought without my entire white belt.
Perry: And even now being a two stripe, you’re trying to knock someone over with your feet, but you’re also pulling them out and you’re like, knock over, stand up, knock over, stand up.
Ava: And that’s been my biggest thing is don’t, don’t get in your own way physically. And then don’t get in your own way mentally. Like if you think too hard about something, stop thinking about it. You’re not going to do it. Just go and do it. You know the days that you don’t want to do it. Don’t think about it Just get up and do it and you’ll feel a lot better.
Perry: Those are the probably the days that you shouldn’t do it. Yes, exactly I like it, man I feel that the most especially in judo because my body just doesn’t learn judo as it naturally learns jiu-jitsu Yeah, but there’ll be days where it’s like, you know My feet need to do something on a throw my hands need to do something on a throw It’s like I fix my feet that my hands break. I I I fix my hands and my feet stop working. And then I just need a day to be like, okay, get everything to work together. How do I get everything to work together?
Ava: Yes, yeah, I have a lot of respect for people that do judo. I did it for a month and I, that was hard. It was the hardest thing I ever did.
Perry: Not every martial art is for everyone.
Ava: No.
Perry: There is a martial art that’s for you, but not every martial art is for everyone.
Ava: Exactly.
Perry: Let’s go into our rapid fire questions.
Ava: Do you have them memorized? Oh, perfect. No, I do not have them memorized.
Perry: I’ll ask you one first.
Ava: Okay.
Perry: It’ll be easy. What is your go-to pre-training stack or meal? And I’ll give you, you can do two if you want to. You could do one as Ava, the, how old are you, 22 year old?
null: 21.
Ava: 21 year old.
Perry: And you could do Ava as the dietetics person.
Ava: Oh, okay. I like that. Well, I get made fun of a lot because I will eat a full meal before jiu-jitsu. Doesn’t matter what it is.
Perry: I used to not be able to do that, but now I can do that.
Ava: Yeah, doesn’t matter what it is. So I don’t really have currently a set thing for jiu-jitsu. If I had to recommend one, for like, especially for feeling sluggish, something with a very easy to break down carb. So like before I lift, I’ll take honey.
Perry: I was gonna say honey. I said, yeah, some honey before wrestling.
Ava: Yep, honey, or even though they’re bad for you, Rice Krispie treats, always a breakdown, they metabolize real fast, you know, Something that’ll get you that sugar and that energy and that PSA, everyone just start pounding rice. Right. That was a trend. That was a trend for real, for lifting. Cause apparently it gave people better pumps.
Perry: Aletha used to have like, she had a very specific amount, like five sour patch kids.
Ava: Oh really?
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: Interesting.
Perry: That was her thing. And it helped her look forward to lifting every day. She’s like, I get my SPKs.
Ava: There you go.
Perry: Sour patch kids.
Ava: You know what? If it gets you to go, it gets you to go. Awesome.
Perry: Your turn.
Ava: If you were a vegetable, what would you be?
Perry: Cabbage? Cabbage? Oh, we had a video before that, like, if you had a vegetable to defend yourself against a hidden attacker, what would it be? And like, I think Jeremiah was like, throw a cabbage at his face. I mean, they are heavy. They explode, which is really cool.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: If I were a vegetable. They’re stumped, yeah. Rutabaga, is that a vegetable?
Ava: It is a vegetable, yes.
Perry: I don’t know why, rutabaga.
Ava: Fascinating.
Perry: But it’s a great word to say.
Ava: Yes, it is a fun word.
Perry: Carrot was in my brain for a while and I was like, carrots are lame. I like carrots, they go great with like any sort of like, but they’re just vehicles for other stuff.
Ava: They are. It’s gotta be with hummus.
Perry: Well, how do you even, how do you eat a rutabaga?
Ava: That’s a great question, I actually don’t know. Do you have to cook it? I’m assuming you’d bake it in some, yeah.
Perry: Put it in the oven. I don’t know.
Ava: Yeah. I don’t know.
Perry: You know, what I will say, what would I be, or what is my favorite one to eat?
Ava: What would you be?
Perry: What would I be?
Ava: If you were a vegetable.
Perry: I’d be a cucumber.
Ava: A cucumber.
Perry: Cucumber. And not the cucumber, but the cucumber plant.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: Because they just like, they go with the flow. They just grow wherever.
Ava: They grow like crazy. Yours took over your garden this year.
Perry: Yeah. I’m a very growth mindsetted person and cucumbers grow a lot. And I would be a cucumber.
Ava: There you go.
Perry: Final answer.
Ava: Fabulous.
Perry: That took a lot. Jeez. Um, what’s your favorite martial arts memory?
Ava: Getting my blue belt.
Perry: Proudest moment?
Ava: Yeah, I think so. I did not think I was going to get it.
Perry: Just ever?
Ava: Just ever.
Perry: I’ve never trained forever. I could train for 30 years.
Ava: Well, because I kept moving. I kept going up to Stevens Point and then coming back. And then you brought it up and you’re like, yeah, we’ll get it to you next time you’re home. And then it was like months later. I was like, I’m never getting this. And then I got it.
Perry: It’s a cool achievement. Do you think when you get your purple belt, that’s going to be like, it’s not my blue belt anymore. It’s my purple belt.
Ava: Maybe. I think when you get your black belts, definitely for my black belt. I think my mindset, since I got my blue belt has shifted to being like, Oh, cool. But like, it’s just a belt.
Perry: Yeah.
Ava: Like purple belt is mid. If you think about it, like of the belts, it’s the middle. Oh, it’s the middle.
Perry: It’s not like, I know mid is a slang term. I just wanted to make sure I understood what mid was like actually like the middle, the middle.
Ava: Okay. Is that what mid means? Yeah.
Perry: Like when kids say mid nowadays.
Ava: Well, it kind of just means like they’re average. They’re average. And that’s kind of what a purple belt is. I feel like, right? Like white belts. I know he is. We had this conversation the other day.
Perry: I’m going to tell Cody’s meh now.
Ava: Okay.
Perry: That’s Ava’s boyfriend. Cody, you’re meh.
Ava: Your turn. What’s the most surprising life lesson that you’ve learned recently?
Perry: Oh, You asked the hardest damn questions.
Ava: I asked you what vegetable you would be last.
Perry: Yeah, but that was hard. The most surprising life lesson. I wouldn’t say it’s the most surprising one, but it’s one I’m reminded of often is everyone has a different map of the world. Everyone’s maps different, which reminds me like everyone’s history is different. What they’ve been exposed to is different. What’s going on in their life is different. Like you just never know what another person has going on. And I think if you walk around with that, it gives you a different perspective to things. So not surprising, but I am continuously reminded of that as a coach.
Ava: Nice. I like it.
Perry: Do you have another one? Wait, no, it’s my turn. Yeah, it’s your turn. This is a good one. So, this is a very, like, debated topic. Can we delete it from this list? You’ve been given a lot of responsibility in the different roles that you’ve had at Utopia. You’ve learned a lot of things with us. Is there anything that you’ve learned with us that you’re like, that shit should be in school?
Ava: How to communicate.
Perry: You didn’t take a communication class in how to talk to other people ever?
Ava: No, I had it in college take a public speaking class. Yeah, that was it and I feel like How do you communicate what you actually want to say?
Perry: Yeah, yeah, it’s definitely something that should be taught or how to have like it’s really external communication or internal like talking to yourself or both and
Ava: Both, I think both are equally important and I think you can’t have one without the other. I think unless you know internally what you want to say and are in the right state of mind, you can’t communicate properly externally and vice versa, right? If you are communicating improperly externally, it’s going to mess you up internally because it’s going to frustrate you that they’re not understanding what you’re actually trying to say. And so I think learning how to communicate and learning.
Perry: I feel like that might be one of yours because like we talk about communication so much.
Ava: We do. We do. And also it’s been like, you know, being 21 and meeting other people that are 21, it’s like, wow, you guys suck. Like, this is horrible.
Perry: And you do a lot of the hiring for our summer camp. We’re trying to find other directors right now for summer camp. And like, that’s one of the number one things I need to find is like, you actually talk to other people?
Ava: Like, are you going to be okay with this position? Yeah.
Perry: Because good luck at having challenging conversations if you can’t communicate easy conversations.
Ava: Exactly. And I feel like that’s so important, especially looking to the next five to 10 years of my life, you know, growing into an actual established adult and, you know, hopefully getting married, having kids, you know, getting a real job.
Perry: Communicate to your kids.
Ava: Yes.
Perry: Like, okay.
Ava: Yeah. Being able to communicate, I think is number one. Spouse or partner? Spouse for sure. For sure.
Perry: Crazy. One of my favorite quotes from one of my mentors, I talk a lot about Michael Burnoff is, our future hinges on our ability to effectively communicate.
Ava: Yes, for sure.
Perry: And I think if you can be a good communicator, you can do anything. Yeah. Sweet. You got another one?
Ava: I do. I’m curious, what’s the story behind the llama? You have like on your Instagram handles all that you had the llama.
Perry: Oh, it used to be like all my names. PJ the llama used to be like my Instagram handle. And then it was my Xbox gamer tag until somehow I lost access to that account and now I can’t get it back. People give me like little llama things all the time.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: Like little llama artwork.
Ava: Yeah.
Perry: So I. I can’t even explain it to you because you’re too young. Oh, so back in the day back in the day before. Jesus.
Ava: We gonna age you right now or age me?
Perry: Yeah, yeah, I was about to say like back in the day before AOL instant messenger, which you don’t have.
Ava: Nope, did not have that.
Perry: See, everyone just uses text messages. Do you know what Reddit is?
Ava: I do know what Reddit is. Cool.
Perry: So Reddit is an online forum where you can create a topic and people comment on it. Yeah. So you can create a little profile picture or avatar. Well, my friend Luke, who owned a paintball store, created a forum, kind of like Reddit, for his paintball store, where we could talk about tournaments and sell our paintball guns and stuff like that. in my little avatar on it, I found this goofy picture of a llama. So it was a llama, but the code was broken on the website and I uploaded this huge picture of a llama. So like anytime my little thread loaded, my little llama picture like broke the entire website and took up like the entire screen.
Ava: I love that.
Perry: So then I just made everything PJ the llama and just llama related cause I thought llamas are really cool.
Ava: That’s cute. I like it.
Perry: That’s it. That’s the llama story.
Ava: I like it. It’s a good story.
Perry: Jamalama, that actually has nothing to do with it, PJs by initials, not pajamas. What is your favorite way to decompress? I know you said you’re not good at doing nothing, but even active decompressing, what’s your favorite way to just chill?
Ava: Recently it’s been, oddly enough, going in the sauna. And I think it’s because I’m too scared to bring my phone into the sauna because I don’t want to break it. So I don’t bring any of my electronics in and I just kind of sit there and I do like 10 to 15 minutes and it’s nice and warm. I’m very, I’m always freezing. So it regulates me and it’s a good, I use it as like my prayer time. Like it’s a good, dedicated, weekly, daily, whatever it may be, however often I go. Time to just sit there, talk to God, and just relax.
Perry: Cool. Follow-up question. What is your, and I’m not a religious person, but what is your favorite Bible verse? Is there something that’s called a Bible verse?
Ava: What’s your favorite one? Romans 8.18. What is that?
Perry: Is that the tattoo you have?
Ava: That’s the one that’s tattooed behind my ear.
Perry: Neck tattoo?
Ava: Yep. The pain you feel now cannot compare to the joy that is coming. That’s always been one of my favorite ones. I feel like having so much unreliability, I guess, with my father’s condition and that, you know, we were getting pulled at school saying, Hey, your dad’s dying. You have to go say goodbye. Or I’d come home and my dad was laying on the ground and he’s been there for hours and he’s passed out. And I’m the only one walking home from middle school that found him. Or, you know, when I was really little, he fell into a wall and cracked his head open from here to here. Like, just not, no, I mean, he’s like a cat. He’s got nine lives. And it was always really scary in the moment, you know, growing up like that. I mean, he’s been, his first big fall was when I was in second grade, third grade, and they’re all seared into my brain. And they, you know, but in that moment, the pain was really scary, but things always got better. Then you know, like I’ve struggled a lot with eating disorders and just mental health issues and depression and always knowing that What’s happening right now? Will get better. There’s something in the future is gonna make it better I’m gonna end on that one.
Perry: That’s my last question. That was good. Anything else Anything else to say any questions for me?
Ava: Do you have a hidden talent that nobody knows about?
Perry: One, I feel like I was just doing something the other day and I was like, this should be my hidden talent. I can’t remember what it is, but I can juggle.
Ava: Oh, okay.
Perry: But I can also do this thing called the Diablo. You might have seen it before. It sounds familiar. If you ever go to Ren Faire, they have it by the jugglers. But it’s like these two sticks, and there’s a big string in between. Maybe it’s like five foot long string. And this thing that looks like a big hourglass on its side. And they spin it, you can throw it, you can do a bunch of stuff with it. I used to do that a lot when I was a kid.
Ava: Oh, very fun.
Perry: Looking to join the circus.
Ava: Nice.
Perry: I really just wanted a talent for the talent show, but I chickened out. I never did it. That’s funny. But my friend got me into it. And I could probably still do stuff today. If I had one. I do have one in my house. That’s cool.
Ava: That’s really cool.
Perry: Jeremy’s now gonna make me get a video of me doing the Diablo. Please. But it was super funny, I went to Ren Faire a couple of years ago and they sell them there. I was with a bunch of friends and we were drinking and I just walked up to the booth and I started doing it and they’re like, what the hell, how do you know how to do that? And I was like, it’s just in my blood. Killed it.
Ava: That’s amazing, I like it.
Perry: Do you have a hidden talent?
Ava: I can sing, but that’s about it.
Perry: Do it.
Ava: No. I knew you were going to ask me to.
Perry: Do it.
Ava: No.
Perry: We’re not leaving this podcast until people get.
Ava: This podcast is going to be very long then.
Perry: Yep. Here we go. Sit in silence. We’re not cutting. Don’t cut this part. All right. Well, thanks, Eva, for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Great having you. I know this is going to inspire females out there, teenagers out there to get involved with martial arts, to hopefully work on their communication, build up skills there. Yes. Do it. You know, you’re a role model for everyone at the Academy, even us older people.
Ava: Oh, thanks. You’re not that old.
Perry: Thank you. You’re the best.
Ava: You’re welcome.
Perry: Eat up the compliments. I’m not that old. All right. Well, great having you leave us five stars reviews, share with your friends and see on the next episode.